Curse

fatmouse · Nov 06, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kry Onicle

Glad we'll be getting the elite mission eventually.

I'll believe it when I see it. In a few months chapter 4 hype will be starting to build up and I wouldn't rule out anet hoping the whole issue blows over.

bigroach · Nov 06, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

I like Nightfall but it seems like it was unfinished at the time of release. The elite mission should have been there (stygian keys exist). And the intended way to achieve the top sunspear title should have been finished.

Perhaps they rushed Nightfall out because Factions was a disappointment and they didn't want more people to stop playing.

However, I think Nightfall is a big improvement over Factions and look forward to more good things from Anet.

gkanks · Nov 06, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

No. You don't say something is going to be in a game, put it in the manual, and then don't have it in the game when the game releases. In the real world, with real products you would get a refund or some percentage of the sales price back.

What software vendor does this? Almost every vendor in the world releases patched functionality when they get to it and I have never been offered a rebate. Sometimes you have to pay for a fix in the real world. Now that sucks.

I have a little bit of a different perspective on this then some as one of my responsibilities involves delivering software to demanding customers. To deliver the amount of content with the quality that these guys do is amazing. Keeping two products (chapters) in development at the same time with staggered release dates and insuring they then integrate as well as they must is a real pain in the backside. This isn’t a business application either, this is a persistent game so they are delivering graphics, music, fun and keeping it as balanced as possible. I know some folks won’t appreciate the technical difficulties involved here but others of us do and I think they pull it off well.

They do a good job of maintaining the world too. Sure there are things that aren’t right sometime (AI?) but we all know they will fix it. They do every time. They do it pretty darn quick while keeping everything as balanced as possible. When there’s a problem in the game world they have to take the time to make sure the fix doesn’t make things worse.

As for the freakin elite mission…. Would you have not purchased the game if you had known it was not there? You can lie to us and yourself and answer that question with a yes but I don’t think anyone will buy that. I’m pretty sure the rest of the game community would rather have this excellent addition, warts and all, right now then wait another month.

Give them a couple of months, don’t set your expectation astronomically high (they won’t be delivering a new chapter), and wait for what they release. I’m willing to bet you will be pretty happy.

If you compare the business model, the time, love, attention and quality provided in the GW world to other MMOs I bet you’ll find that ANET does a nice job. Go read the EQ or WOW forums; the grass is not greener.

I for one, want to encourage ANET to keep teasing us and slipping out bits of info without feeling like they will get booed down. Wondering what’s coming next keeps it interesting.

I don’t mean to rant or sound like a fan boy but ANET does a darn good job and the constant complaining about a few minor items which they will fix and even improve without adding any cost will not help.

I would like to say thank you to ANET for NF and I think the majority of the players out there feel the same way.

Good job ANET, keep it coming,

JP

Eviance · Nov 06, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Personally I look at it this way:

After about a month of Factions everyone was complaining about being bored and not having anything to do and so forth and so special weekends starting being doled out to us to keep it interesting. Some complained, others were happy but it gave us something to do.

If these missions were out now and we could be allowed access and so forth then in a few months everyone will be bored, prices on "leet" weapons will have dropped and everyone would be bitching about how bored they are. I agree about the let down of "they should already be ingame" HOWEVER I am happier that the content in this game is so much more enthralling than Factions and I do believe that alone will keep me hanging around in game till the elite missions come out.

For those who doubt they will come out, Anet usually doesn't say one thing and then COMPLETELY back out of it. Granted the missions may in the end suck - or getting access might be too restrictive, but who knows? I am content to wait because that means I can take my time and enjoy the game and not have to worry about beating the clock to get to the end game goodies so I can have more money for skills.
Basically in a nutshell I appreciate the wait as it gives me more time to catch up in game via taking it easy.

gabrial heart · Nov 06, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Well one thing i never thought anet was, was a company that gave me the buyer beware feeling, but this one really takes the cake. A-net has hundreds of people running all over the map looking for an elite mission that wasn't included with release and now you won't say whether the hero that is mentioned is even there? I'd REALLY be totally fine with "we just ran out of time", updates to come. Not the "oh, we are adding all this FREE content just for you, soon!" even though it was supposed to exist...... You're updates have always been free, that's what makes this an even better game!

Granted I haven't beaten the game yet even, but still, a-net soooo should have known that people would be searching for content that doesn't exist far before making this announcement. I can see why you're dangling the carrots, but you MUST know by now the mules are only going to bite you later. Make it clear what content is in the game now before this turns into even more of a mockery, IMO.

You guys made a really great chapter, why muck it up with info about features/content that aren't even included yet? If it was too late to change the manuscripts, there should have been some sort of notice about TBA features/content.

This post by Gaile really just feels like PR clean-up. I'm glad you're adding new content, great game so far, lose the mystery about features that aren't included. I'm starting to feel like I'm awash with corporate mumbo jumbo and unorganization.

Nine Soul · Nov 06, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

As several people pointed out, waiting for the update will keep people playing til then. Second, why is it such a big deal that people ran around looking for it? At least you had fun, maybe got yourself an Explorer title or found stuff that you weren't looking for but it's good to know where it is.

As for me, I'll say "Thank you" to Gaile for actually taking the time to come to the forums and make not ONE, but several posts. I used to be a TES gamer (Morrowind and Oblivion, anyone?), and I can say that, while Bethsoft made some great games, very rarely have I seen someone from the company post inside their forums or actually pay attention to what the fans were saying.

Now, I've bought all three chapters, and yes, I'll buy the next one with no hesitation as well, even if I am getting slightly bored with no elite mission. But being bored made me decide to go cap each and every single elite that exists. So to all you bored people - there's still a lot to do. Go cap elites and get those titles maxed.

muffinman57 · Nov 06, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I know this is late and in response to something Gaile said on page 2, but, regarding Razah, a simple yes he is in the game or no he is not in the game would suffice. People spent hours looking for the elite mission, that is obviously not in the game, but the information was revealed late, I don't want to spend hours searching for something that isn't in the game again, so is he in or not?

Master Righteous · Nov 06, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

The Novermber issue of PCGamer was out way before Nightfall...yes, the elite mission was an advertised part of Nightfall. Good enough for you?

Dude, you are confusing PC gamer with ArenaNet. Anet did not say to them it would be available at RELEASE. It WILL BE available, and PC Gamer did not say elite missions would be available at release anyway.

S-Patrick

makosi · Nov 06, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Righteous

Dude, you are confusing PC gamer with ArenaNet. Anet did not say to them it would be available at RELEASE. It WILL BE available, and PC Gamer did not say elite missions would be available at release anyway.

S-Patrick

I agree. I'm sure the whole Inscriptions idea was first mentioned briefly in PCGamer magazine so people bought expensive, rare weapons to inscribe which was, as we know now, not so straightforward. People were annoyed at NCSoft/ArenaNet for their lost gamble when their 'old' weapons weren't scribable. The morale of the story is, 3rd part publishers aren't a solid source of knowledge so take that info with a pinch of salt.

Does it really hurt so bad that we'll have to wait a bit for those Sundering Shiny Weapons of Expensiveness in an Elite area?

unienaule · Nov 06, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I dunno, Anet is great and all, but to use the McDonalds analogy that some people screwed up, it just seems kind of like this:
Unien goes to McD's and orders value meal.
Unien gets value meal. Unien wonders where the fries are and searches for them to no avail. Person behind counter then states that they never told me when I was going to get fries, but that they are in fact making them right now and that Unien should feel special because I'm getting the fries, which I ordered.

I don't really have a problem that it's delayed, I just think, "How hard could it possibly be to admit you unintentionally mislead us, and that we aren't getting "free special content," it's getting "promised content late.""

SirErnieMacGloop · Nov 06, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Got me

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the elite mission not being in game yet, nor do I have a problem waiting for it, (IMO I think a staggered release of content for a new chapter is a great thing).

The issue I have is with the game documentation ('manuscript') mentioning it as being a part of the game, and no response from support or anyone at Arena-net confirming it was either in game or not. (Although I suppose 9 days after release isn't too long to wait for a reply to this question.)

I feel that Arena-net should have given us a heads-up, addendum, note or answered support questions about this earlier in the week.

Duly Thankful · Nov 06, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

If the developement team for Nightfall will still be working on finishing it at Christmas, what does this say about their next project - Chapter 5? Do they only get 10 months at it instead of a year?

And if Nightfall wont be finished until Christmas I will just wait and buy it then.

Fates · Nov 06, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

So, after sleeping on it, I decided to come back to this thread.

I'm not pissed that the elite mission isn't in the game yet. I know that tight deadlines sometimes get missed, other priorities take precedence, etc... In fact, I told Gaile in a pm almost a week ago now, that I'd rather be told "it's not in the game yet, sorry, we're working on it and will get it in there as soon as we can" than to be told "no comment."

My complaint is the timing and nature of this "dev update." We should have been told a week ago that the elite mission wasn't in the game. Some people were through the game by last Sunday and started looking for it. There were a number of discussions on a number of boards about it and I know Gaile was asked about it whenever she was online. Many people spent a lot of time looking for it, and A-net knows this.

To now come out and say that it's bonus free content to be added at a later date is crap. It's not bonus content, it's an advertised part of the game. We shouldn't be grateful for this upcoming update, we should be expectant.

When I'm project manager on a project and I know I can't make a deadline on a specific feature, you gotta know I'm damned sure going to let the customer know that I can't make the deadline, prior to the completion date. I'm not going to wait until 10 days later, when all the customer's people have been looking around for the feature, trying to get it to work, to come out and say "oh, ya, we're going to add that at a later date, don't you feel lucky?"

Please don't belittle me with the "well, we never actually said it was going to be in there at release" garbage. You're better than that.

Do you understand why I'm pissed?

allience · Nov 06, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

i'm glad that gaile gave us a strait answer on this. however, i'm not happy with the game "documentation". as a customer, i feel a bit cheated because in the manual it's mentionned that the elite mission is there just like razah.

sure, things WILL be there soon but, i'm annoyed they put it in the manual as already existing at the moment i bought the product.

and another thing that nobody mentioned is Heroes Ascent. out of all the things Anet "misleads" us about, Heroes Ascent pisses me off the most!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
taken from Nightfall Manuscripts page 131: "Once you arrive in Heroes Ascent, you'll need to form a group of eight people before you can enter the first mission, a qualifying round."

now you all know heroes ascent consists of a team of 6 ppl. this change was made a while BEFORE nightfall was released. sooo, what should a person who buys this product understand? that anet will increase back the party to 8 or that anet strait Lies about their product?

i wonder if anet has anything to say about this.
(yes i was that bored to read the damn manual)

Phaern Majes · Nov 06, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Um....most likely the manuals were printed before the change was even considered. Yes the change was before the release of NF, but not way before. What was it one - two weeks before? And you think that the thousands of manuals were all printed, bound together, shipped to packaging companies, and then put into their boxes with the respective game in just that one - two weeks? I highly doubt it.

Gli · Nov 06, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

One thing that really bothers me about this thread are the people who are being apologetic about the absence of the elite mission.

Who the hell are you people to judge where to draw the line about what's acceptable where it comes to which content is available from the start and which part we're going to have to wait for?

I have a friend who only gets to play a few hours a week. He started a dervish and probably won't get to Kourna until later this week. Now, does the presence of people like him imply that the latter 15 or so missions don't need to be included upon release? Should he then be posting about "how much there is to do in the game" while we wait for them? Hell no. Neither should you be flapping your gums about the elite mission. Some people are ready for it, they were promised one, and it isn't there.

Just because you're not yet ready or eager to play the elite mission that the manuscripts do after all promise us, gives you no ground AT ALL to decide that we're being whiny about it not being here right now. You guys do NOT make up the grand cosmic scale upon which the merits of a game's contents are gauged. You're JUST another person posting on a forum, just like the rest of us. You're not special, and your apologetics about why it isn't a big deal that the game is incomplete right now are NOT valid in the face of the fact that the game is INDEED incomplete.

Thank you.

bblackmoor · Nov 06, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

The people complaining about this have apparently never purchased software before. A minor error in the documentation? A correction being issued in less than two weeks? Geez. I wish more COTS software had problems this trivial.

prism2525 · Nov 06, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

i always read the manuals, even after waiting a whole damn month for my copy of Factions to arrive. O/c i skip the usual 'how to control your character' crap but I love to read the background and the info on creatures and such.

gabrial heart · Nov 06, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Well, I don't really BLAME Anet for all this, i know they have a lot going on and such. I also think (although i cannot confirm it right now) that on the actual ce box, it mentions an elite mission, the heros and joining across districts content and features. It's purely false information, yes with PC gamer, with Anet's advertising, as well as rumors.

But to me, this is something that should have been sqwaushed before the release to avoid any of this later *fixing* of errors. A couple reason i feel that NF really wasn't complete apon release, buggy AI, incomplete (announced) features, *special areas* that lead no where, incompletable quests and mission masters, etc... For a seasoned, well established game, it seems as though they dropped the ball.

I don't want to nit-pick really, I'm enjoying the game... Still think they should come clean on this missing content instead of "well we never said it would be in with the release". Gawd forbid they make a mistake.

dr_forest · Nov 06, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Gaile, I seriously appreciate your interaction on this board and feel like the response time is excellent. I' admit I stopped reading the posts back on page six because with only 24 hours in the day, my thread devotion needs to end at about an hour. Considering how much time I've spent playing NF I can't believe how far others have gone (though I did spend all weekend dye farming and I absolutely love the dye preview feature). Looking forward to more content. However I must admit I like to savor these games and while I have a host of level 20 characters I have yet to finish any of the three campaigns. So I guess I'm slow.

cheers